Robinho: The Substituted Substitute

[Original Dub]

I wish Robinho had Tevez' attitude and work rate, what a player he would be then.

He is not though,he is a different style of player so for me accepting that he will never do the kinds of things Carlos does is ok.

RH-

£25.5m was the fee that his owners put on him. That was his price tag and it was common knowledge at the time. Kia Jorabchian said so. So if some report said Real offered 40m for him then (a) the report was a load of bollox (b) they were fucking stupid to offer that.

Oh and it didn't matter because he wanted to stay in England. As is the case in almost every transfer, the player gets to choose where he goes, so the club he ends up going to isn't always the one that offers the biggest transfer fee. I'll bet we offered more for Berbatov, Torres and maybe a few others, but its ultimately up to the player and in Tevez' case I reckon we offered the most wages... and by some distance.

The transfer fee was the same for us as it was for U***d. They couldn't publically come out and say "If manchester U***d want Tevez, they will have to pay the £25.5m fee because that was agreed when the loan with option to buy deal was laid out..."
And then ask us for £47m.

A player isn't a different price for us as it is for U***d. Wages, yes. Transfer fee? No.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 831582.ece

Heres a link to what might have been paid for him.
He has been worth every penny this year if his goals win us something but going of what Kia says is not the complete story and I dont believe most of it.
There are many reports of it being in the 47 mill mark so I think there may be some truth in it.

Both us and United agreed a fee with Jorabchian. That fee was £25.5m. This was made public as early as January of last year.

If you honestly think we decided to pay double the fee they wanted from United, then I despair mate.... just because we're rich doesn't mean we're complete fucking idiots that will pay twice as much as the price that is publically stated FFS!

I read that article and its the only one that came out with this shit. The club completely denied it when it came out and one or two shitty little tabloids followed suit because it put us in a bad light and they're always game ball for that!

You know as well as I do that we didn't pay nearly 50m quid for Tevez.

He was cheaper than Robinho, who BTW the club have no problem in boasting is the all time British record purchase.

[Original Dub]

Manchester City are paying an astonishing £47 million fee to Carlos Tévez’s private “owners” in a move that obliterates the British transfer record. The deal makes the Argentina striker the fifth most expensive footballer of all time.

City’s billionaire Arab owners have agreed to pay almost twice the £25.5 million fee widely reported to have changed hands, The Times can reveal. An initial £15 million payment is to be followed by two additional sums of £16 million.

Another £3.5 million will be paid if City win the Champions League while Tévez is at the club — an improbable scenario, but Sheikh Mansour has already shown the lengths to which he is prepared to go to transform the club from perennial underachievers into contenders for the biggest prizes.

One of the Sheikh’s first moves when he took over 12 months ago was to smash the British transfer record by paying Real Madrid £34.2 million for Robinho, the Brazil forward.


But that fee is dwarfed by the £47 million deal for Tévez, which ranks behind only the signings of Cristiano Ronaldo, Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Kaká, and Zinédine Zidane, for £80 million, £60.7 million, £56.1 million and £47.2 million respectively, as the most expensive.

The revelation is the latest twist in the extraordinary saga surrounding Tévez, whose name has rarely been out of the headlines since he arrived at West Ham United in August 2006 and sparked huge controversy about third-party ownership.

And it deepens the mystery about where the money is going.

The Times understands that it is paid to two offshore companies but Kia Joorabchian, the businessman who fronts the consortium that owned the rights to Tévez until City bought the player outright in July, has never explained who the beneficiaries are.

Nonetheless, Tévez has represented a handsome bit of business. The investors stand to make an estimated profit of at least £50 million from an assortment of fees received for a player whose “economic rights” they originally bought from Boca Juniors for £14 million in 2004.

They are understood to include a fee of £4.5 million from West Ham, where Tévez spent the 2006-07 season, a £9 million payment from Manchester United to cover the cost of the player’s two-year “loan” at Old Trafford and now the sum from City.

City’s outlay does not end there, though. On top of the £47 million fee, the club are paying Tévez a salary of £7.5 million a year, or just under £145,000 a week. His wages over a five-year contract take City’s total projected outlay on the striker to £84.5 million, a staggering sum even by City’s inflated standards.

In all, City’s billionaire owner has committed £770.986 million, which includes the £200 million it cost to buy the club, the £342.786 million committed on players’ contracts and £10 million spent on improving the Carrington training headquarters, City of Manchester Stadium and the club’s academy. Mark Hughes, the City manager, has spent £140 million on six leading players this summer and £218.2 million in transfer fees in total since Sheikh Mansour’s takeover, during which time City’s annual wage bill has more than doubled to just under £95 million.

I remember that article at the time and it stank of underlying tones that put the club down (see underlined). Another city bashing article when it was really popular to do so. Also, it doesn't even say there was a source close to deal... its a load of bollox and it was roundly rejected by the club.

[Rag_hater]

I wish Robinho had Tevez' attitude and work rate, what a player he would be then.

He is not though,he is a different style of player so for me accepting that he will never do the kinds of things Carlos does is ok.

RH-

£25.5m was the fee that his owners put on him. That was his price tag and it was common knowledge at the time. Kia Jorabchian said so. So if some report said Real offered 40m for him then (a) the report was a load of bollox (b) they were fucking stupid to offer that.

Oh and it didn't matter because he wanted to stay in England. As is the case in almost every transfer, the player gets to choose where he goes, so the club he ends up going to isn't always the one that offers the biggest transfer fee. I'll bet we offered more for Berbatov, Torres and maybe a few others, but its ultimately up to the player and in Tevez' case I reckon we offered the most wages... and by some distance.

The transfer fee was the same for us as it was for U***d. They couldn't publically come out and say "If manchester U***d want Tevez, they will have to pay the £25.5m fee because that was agreed when the loan with option to buy deal was laid out..."
And then ask us for £47m.

A player isn't a different price for us as it is for U***d. Wages, yes. Transfer fee? No.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 831582.ece

Heres a link to what might have been paid for him.
He has been worth every penny this year if his goals win us something but going of what Kia says is not the complete story and I dont believe most of it.
There are many reports of it being in the 47 mill mark so I think there may be some truth in it.

Both us and U***d agreed a fee with Jorabchian. That fee was £25.5m. This was made public as early as January of last year.

If you honestly think we decided to pay double the fee they wanted from U***d, then I despair mate.... just because we're rich doesn't mean we're complete fucking idiots that will pay twice as much as the price that is publically stated FFS!

I read that article and its the only one that came out with this shit. The club completely denied it when it came out and one or two shitty little tabloids followed suit because it put us in a bad light and they're always game ball for that!

You know as well as I do that we didn't pay nearly 50m quid for Tevez.

He was cheaper than Robinho, who BTW the club have no problem in boasting is the all time British record purchase.

25.5 was the starting price.Thats why Baconface didnt buy him.
Our club may want to keep what they actually are going to pay for him very quiet because it may have implications for future transfers if they make it public what Carlos is costing.
I think we blew everybody else out with a large bid and do not for a minute believe what Kia said.
If there wasn't any truth in the story I think we would have sued for making up something that wasn't true

[Original Dub]

I wish Robinho had Tevez' attitude and work rate, what a player he would be then.

He is not though,he is a different style of player so for me accepting that he will never do the kinds of things Carlos does is ok.

RH-

£25.5m was the fee that his owners put on him. That was his price tag and it was common knowledge at the time. Kia Jorabchian said so. So if some report said Real offered 40m for him then (a) the report was a load of bollox (b) they were fucking stupid to offer that.

Oh and it didn't matter because he wanted to stay in England. As is the case in almost every transfer, the player gets to choose where he goes, so the club he ends up going to isn't always the one that offers the biggest transfer fee. I'll bet we offered more for Berbatov, Torres and maybe a few others, but its ultimately up to the player and in Tevez' case I reckon we offered the most wages... and by some distance.

The transfer fee was the same for us as it was for U***d. They couldn't publically come out and say "If manchester U***d want Tevez, they will have to pay the £25.5m fee because that was agreed when the loan with option to buy deal was laid out..."
And then ask us for £47m.

A player isn't a different price for us as it is for U***d. Wages, yes. Transfer fee? No.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 831582.ece

Heres a link to what might have been paid for him.
He has been worth every penny this year if his goals win us something but going of what Kia says is not the complete story and I dont believe most of it.
There are many reports of it being in the 47 mill mark so I think there may be some truth in it.

Both us and U***d agreed a fee with Jorabchian. That fee was £25.5m. This was made public as early as January of last year.

If you honestly think we decided to pay double the fee they wanted from U***d, then I despair mate.... just because we're rich doesn't mean we're complete fucking idiots that will pay twice as much as the price that is publically stated FFS!

I read that article and its the only one that came out with this shit. The club completely denied it when it came out and one or two shitty little tabloids followed suit because it put us in a bad light and they're always game ball for that!

You know as well as I do that we didn't pay nearly 50m quid for Tevez.

He was cheaper than Robinho, who BTW the club have no problem in boasting is the all time British record purchase.

25.5 was the starting price.Thats why Baconface didnt buy him.
Our club may want to keep what they actually are going to pay for him very quiet because it may have implications for future transfers if they make it public what Carlos is costing.
I think we blew everybody else out with a large bid and do not for a minute believe what Kia said.
If there wasn't any truth in the story I think we would have sued for making up something that wasn't true

We may have sued once or twice but we don't sue every time mate.

You say "That's why baconface didn't buy him". The fee was agreed and the player was offered a contract by baconface - one that would make him one of the club's top earners.

He turned it down because (a) He felt Baconface didn't appreciate him and left it too late to make the offer and (b) because we obviously offered him better wages and regular football.

The price was the same for us as it was for United. Our money men would not have Kia and co ask united for 25m and us for double.

[the_georgian_genius]

The best way i can contribute to this thread is by pros and cons.

PROS/DEFENCES
No matter what anyone says, he had a fantastic season last year, 4th top goalscorer in the league above Rooney and joint with Torres.
He is a superb talent, best in our squad on ability alone.
He is one of my favourite players, not because im a kid and he is a superstar but because i beleive he can do even better than he did for us last season and be an icon for us.
I don't think he is 100% match fit yet after being out for so long.
He is short on confidence which for a player like Robinho who is cocky and confident is a big blow to him, and getting substituted yesterday didn't help with his confidence even though it was the right decision.
I think if he cost £5m and not a record £32.2m he wouldn't be getting half the stick he is at the moment.

CONS/CRITICISMS
Even though i beleive in all what i have put above i am finding it harder and harder to continue to defend the lad to the hilt, i'll always support him but i don't want to look a clueless dick by coming out with all the pros above. He needs to help me :D

In all seriousness, we all need to support him, if he starts on tuesday (which i beleive he will) we all need to clap, cheer and sing his name as much as we would with anyone else.

A winning goal in a manchester derby does secure criticism free status no matter how shit he plays so here's hoping he bags the winner on Tuesday and we will all go away singing "we've got robinho"

Come on robi, prove everyone wrong.

[Original Dub]

The best way i can contribute to this thread is by pros and cons.

PROS/DEFENCES
No matter what anyone says, he had a fantastic season last year, 4th top goalscorer in the league above Rooney and joint with Torres.
He is a superb talent, best in our squad on ability alone.
He is one of my favourite players, not because im a kid and he is a superstar but because i beleive he can do even better than he did for us last season and be an icon for us.
I don't think he is 100% match fit yet after being out for so long.
He is short on confidence which for a player like Robinho who is cocky and confident is a big blow to him, and getting substituted yesterday didn't help with his confidence even though it was the right decision.
I think if he cost £5m and not a record £32.2m he wouldn't be getting half the stick he is at the moment.

CONS/CRITICISMS
Even though i beleive in all what i have put above i am finding it harder and harder to continue to defend the lad to the hilt, i'll always support him but i don't want to look a clueless dick by coming out with all the pros above. He needs to help me :D

In all seriousness, we all need to support him, if he starts on tuesday (which i beleive he will) we all need to clap, cheer and sing his name as much as we would with anyone else.

A winning goal in a manchester derby does secure criticism free status no matter how shit he plays so here's hoping he bags the winner on Tuesday and we will all go away singing "we've got robinho"

Come on robi, prove everyone wrong.

Good post mate, I'll go along with that... I did say my patience was wearing thin, but its not gone yet.

[london blue 2]

What exactly has Robson done to make the footballing world hate him so much?
http://www.footballforums.net/forums/sh ... p?t=237549

[MaineRoadMemories]

What exactly has Robson done to make the footballing world hate him so much?
http://www.footballforums.net/forums/sh ... p?t=237549

Most expensive player in premiership history with the largest wages (at the time) does not help but what completely kills Robinho is the interviews he does about been the greatest and winning the league and basically making himself out to be one of the best players in the world in the same bracket as Messi, Ronaldo and Kaka, despite been outshone by a injury prone Welshman every week.

UK footy fans have never been keen on show pony's who don't have the bottle to graft hard. He would get more love in Italy, probably not Spain though as they didn't like him either.

[Rag_hater]

I think it was the most stupid thing Mancini has done since he has been in charge taking Robbie off.
It obviosly had a big effect cos I remember the toffees goal being peppered with shots and Howard making a MOM performance.
Mancini got everything wrong against the toffees.I hope its not a sign of things to come.

By the way they love him in Spain and would have him back in a heatbeat.

[Beeks]

I think it was the most stupid thing Mancini has done since he has been in charge taking Robbie off.

??????

By the way they love him in Spain and would have him back in a heatbeat.

Great news all round then

[Original Dub]

I think it was the most stupid thing Mancini has done since he has been in charge taking Robbie off.

??????

By the way they love him in Spain and would have him back in a heatbeat.

Great news all round then

Yep, at this stage everyone in football has commented on his performances or lack of.

ITs looking less likely that he will improve, and I hope he does of course, but I've a feeling he'll be off and there's no hope in hell we'll get £32.5m for him IMO.

[Rag_hater]

I think it was the most stupid thing Mancini has done since he has been in charge taking Robbie off.

??????


Made loads of difference didnt it puttin SWP on the pitch.Changed the game totally.We were all over them.

[Original Dub]

I think it was the most stupid thing Mancini has done since he has been in charge taking Robbie off.

??????


Made loads of difference didnt it puttin SWP on the pitch.Changed the game totally.We were all over them.

Actually, I thought SWP did more in his few mins than Robinho did in the whole game - HE RAN AT PLAYERS.

Its also important to note that SWP was played out of position. He is not a left winger.

[Rag_hater]

I think it was the most stupid thing Mancini has done since he has been in charge taking Robbie off.

??????


Made loads of difference didnt it puttin SWP on the pitch.Changed the game totally.We were all over them.

Actually, I thought SWP did more in his few mins than Robinho did in the whole game - HE RAN AT PLAYERS.

Its also important to note that SWP was played out of position. He is not a left winger.

Actually I thought he didn't.He ran at players once or twice and then did very little.He didnt change the game.The Chosen got it wrong.

[Original Dub]

I think it was the most stupid thing Mancini has done since he has been in charge taking Robbie off.

??????


Made loads of difference didnt it puttin SWP on the pitch.Changed the game totally.We were all over them.

Actually, I thought SWP did more in his few mins than Robinho did in the whole game - HE RAN AT PLAYERS.

Its also important to note that SWP was played out of position. He is not a left winger.

Actually I thought he didn't.He ran at players once or twice and then did very little.He didnt change the game.The Chosen got it wrong.

Are you slagging off this manager as well?? "The chosen one"??

Come on mate, you shouldn't slag off every city manager, that's what rags are for.

Now, SWP may not have changed the game, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong move. Sometimes the right move doesn't work. If it always did, football would be predictable and shit.

Yes, SWP did only make a couple of runs, but it was a couple more than Robinho did and he was playing on the opposite wing. It wasn't the worng move at all. The wrong move was bringing a completely annonymous Robinho on INSTEAD of SWP. If he'd brought on SWP, put him on the right, Petrov left and Bellers and Tevez up front it might have helped. I think it would have given us much more balance.

That said, I'm not sure any changes would have won us that game. Everton wanted it more and that's the sad part.

[Kladze]

I think it was the most stupid thing Mancini has done since he has been in charge taking Robbie off.
It obviosly had a big effect cos I remember the toffees goal being peppered with shots and Howard making a MOM performance.

You're bloody delusional mate.

[Rag_hater]

]

Are you slagging off this manager as well?? "The chosen one"??

Come on mate, you shouldn't slag off every city manager, that's what rags are for.

Now, SWP may not have changed the game, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong move. Sometimes the right move doesn't work. If it always did, football would be predictable and shit.

Yes, SWP did only make a couple of runs, but it was a couple more than Robinho did and he was playing on the opposite wing. It wasn't the worng move at all. The wrong move was bringing a completely annonymous Robinho on INSTEAD of SWP. If he'd brought on SWP, put him on the right, Petrov left and Bellers and Tevez up front it might have helped. I think it would have given us much more balance.

That said, I'm not sure any changes would have won us that game. Everton wanted it more and that's the sad part.[/quote]













So you could see all those things that weren't right yet youll still say the manager didn't get it wrong.
Why did they want it more than us?Surely the chosen one is supposed to make us want it more.Thats what he is employed for.
And Robbie made 18 passes to SWP 6 so I dont think SWP did more in his time on the pitch than Robbie did.

[ant london]

He has scored 3 goals in 12 months. Not too great for the all time british transfer signing.

Another City player has actually scored four goals in 12 months

vs Sunderland 21/3/2009
vs Arsenal 12/09/09
vs Bolton 12/12/09
vs Blackburn 11/01/2010

That player.....Micah Richards. I love watching Robinho when he performs but, honestly, seen in that light Robinho should be ashamed of his output.

[Kladze]

So you could see all those things that weren't right yet youll still say the manager didn't get it wrong.
Why did they want it more than us?Surely the chosen one is supposed to make us want it more.Thats what he is employed for.
And Robbie made 18 passes to SWP 6 so I dont think SWP did more in his time on the pitch than Robbie did.

Mancini probably thought it was the right move to give him his chance - given that he'd publicly stated, priot to the game - that Robinho must learn to perform away from CoMS.

Robbie made 18 passes?
I was unaware he'd been involved in the game at all 18 times ........ still, moving the ball along 18 times is hardly a contribution is it?

[Original Dub]

Mate you say that everytime "Robbie made x amount of passes compared to..."

There's much more to football than those stats. You are now THE ONLY PERSON who thinks Robinho is playing ok. The only one.

SWP was only on for a few mins in comparrison to Robinho, but the runs he made were far more dangerous to the Everton defence than any that Robinho attempted to do. SWP ran at defenders at speed and that ruffles them up. If he had been brought on instead of Robinho and put in his preferred position, then I think we would have been more effective as a team.

And I never said it wasn't Mancini's fault that we lost. It was his fault, as was it the players' fault.

I still don't get why you're slagging him off and calling him "the chosen one". You called the last guy "clueless".

Personally, it seems more and more like you are actually a Brazil supporter who has city as a side show because a couple of brazilians play/have played for us. You defend brazilian players to the hilt and slag off the manchester city manager in order to defend them.

What's that all about?