SHORT TERM V LONG TERM

[Blue Since 76]

in the very short term this scenario would be a shaker

Whilst I'm all for this long term view, if we draw with West Brom and lose at Watford, Pep should be sacked.

[john68]

John, comin fra Yorksha ah dooant understan' enny o' wha' theur wrote. are theur askin if wea'ar 'eear fert long or shoarts term? am 'eear shoarts term anx o' we dooant win six world cups 'n t' champions league int' next twoa years then ah'm art o' 'eear!.

I see your studies doing English as a 2nd language at the University of Skipton are going well Jimbo....

[john68]

The problem with the new squad theory is that we have spanked hundreds of millions without managing to match Vincent, Silva, Yaya and Hart's ability. We are still miles away from replacing them adequately.
Yes Sane and Jesus look promising, but Nolito, Stones and Gundogan are bang average. I don't have any real belief that next year will be better, it might be, it might not.
And we all knew over twelve months ago that our full back positions were fucked, but nobody, (and that means Pep too) bothered their arse to address it.
In the meantime our defence was iffy, replacement keeper the worst I've ever seen (and yes I mean in forty three years) and the attack was often powder puff. Add in that Yaya and Silva are going to get less effective rather than more and every department needs to improve. Has Pep shown us he is the man to achieve this? Not really.
Next season could be great, but it could just as easily not be. My optimism does not match John's by any stretch.
Then again, Vinny could stay fit, a decent keeper arrives and we buy two pacy competent full backs.
It's 50/50 for me.

New squad, theory or not, is sadly a reality that has to be dealt with. The fact that it wasn't addressed and the squad strengthened properly after Mancini won the League is part of the stagnation that has left us with a necessary revolution, rather than an evolution. Marwood and Txiki stand in the firing line? Or was t under instruction from the owners? We will probably never know.

We knew 24 months, not 12, ago that this problem would occur and you are right that nothing was significantly done to solve it. Unfair to drag Pep into that though, As we know he or City did try to bid for seven defensive players in the last close season.

One window was never going to be anywhere near enough Piccs. It is far, far too early to cast any judgement on Pep's ability to address our problems. Pep was given 3 years to build a new team. By that time, most of the players he inherited will be well past their sell by date and will have needed to be replaced anyway. By comparison, I note the complete opposite view you had of Pellergrini. It was almost triumphal on the back of the Mancini sacking. Pellergrini was your answer to all the ills caused by Mancini. Didn't quite work out like that in the end. did it?.....Started well, faded badly. Part of our stagnation problem.

Pellegrini was a very good manager. We played some great football and won the league with him in charge of Mancini's squad in his first season at the club. However, once it became clear to him and the players that he was just a stop gap solution, he didn't have the man manager skill to get them going. No wonder with an ageing, stagnating squad with a lack of hunger after having won the league two time int he last three years.

In my opinion it felt like the top brass in the club just put everything on-hold for a couple of seasons in wait for Pep, and we now have to play catch-up. That decision (or non-decision) was a total fuck-up.

This is exactly how I feel about it Nool.

,

Remember Mancini feeding the press that City couldn't win the League because they'd said so?
Pep knows this is over 3yrs, he continually told the media that when he arrived. They ignore that because they need immediacy and a tool to beat him with. The Sheeple take it all in and react.
Pep's just playing games with them.

[ruralblue]

John, comin fra Yorksha ah dooant understan' enny o' wha' theur wrote. are theur askin if wea'ar 'eear fert long or shoarts term? am 'eear shoarts term anx o' we dooant win six world cups 'n t' champions league int' next twoa years then ah'm art o' 'eear!.

I see your studies doing English as a 2nd language at the University of Skipton are going well Jimbo....

They've actually said if I can complete the crayoning in on these last few colouring books I might be able to actually go into the fields to talk to the sheep!

Made very good reading the post by the way x

[johnny crossan]

John, comin fra Yorksha ah dooant understan' enny o' wha' theur wrote. are theur askin if wea'ar 'eear fert long or shoarts term? am 'eear shoarts term anx o' we dooant win six world cups 'n t' champions league int' next twoa years then ah'm art o' 'eear!.

I see your studies doing English as a 2nd language at the University of Skipton are going well Jimbo....

They've actually said if I can complete the crayoning in on these last few colouring books I might be able to actually go into the fields to talk to the sheep!

Made very good reading the post by the way x

don't let them see you going in there wearing wellies, they can get very jealous.

[Crossie]

Another thing that pisses me off about the press is that if you win one game, you're "in great form". If a striker scores one goal' he's "in a hot streak". If you lose 1, you have poor form. No no no, form is over a period of time bigger than one instance, probably over 5 or even 10. It's a good example of press sensationalism which we're all guilty of funding.

[sheblue]

Ginger Kev has shown many times he can't control a midfield. That leaves Silva and Yaya sized holes to fill. And soon.

This was illustrated last night when Silva and Yaya went off, as good as Kevin is he is not that type of player.

[johnny crossan]

BBC at it this morning - Arsenal still chasing us for a top 4 spot, apparently all incredibly exciting


notice who's in the mix according to them?

anyway

"How do they stand at the moment?

--------------Goals for---Goals against----Goal difference-------Points---------Final game
Man City --------75 ----------39------------------+36--------------------75-- ---------Watford (a)
Liverpool---------75-----------42------------------+33--------------------73----------Middlesbrough (h)
Arsenal-----------74-----------43------------------+31--------------------72----------Everton (h)

Premier League rules state: "If at the end of the season either the league champions or the clubs to be relegated or the question of qualification for other competitions cannot be determined because two or more clubs are equal on points, goal difference and goals scored, the clubs concerned shall play off one or more deciding league matches on neutral grounds, the format, venue and timing of which shall be determined by the board."

Last season, there was a chance that Liverpool and West Ham could have finished with identical records with a Europa League place at stake.

So, how could it all happen?

Manchester City v Liverpool: A play-off for third place

This would require a high-scoring draw for City at Watford, while Liverpool give relegated Middlesbrough a thumping at Anfield.

For instance, a 3-3 draw for City and a 3-0 win for Liverpool would produce this scenario, with the teams tied for third place (and that Champions League group stage place):

--------------Goals for---Goals against----Goal difference-------Points---------Final game
Man City --------78 ----------42------------------+36--------------------75-- ---------Watford (a)
Liverpool---------78-----------42------------------+36--------------------73----------Middlesbrough (h)


The sides would also be locked together with identical records if City drew 4-4 and Liverpool won 4-1, and so on.

However, Arsenal cannot affect this scenario - even by winning, they could finish no higher than fifth.

Manchester City v Arsenal: Doomsday scenario for City?

By contrast, a heavy defeat for City raises the spectre of finishing level on points with Arsenal.

If City were to lose 4-0 at Vicarage Road, and Arsenal to sneak home 1-0 against Everton, the sides would finish like this:

--------------Goals for---Goals against----Goal difference-------Points
Man City --------75 ----------43------------------+32--------------------75
Arsenal-----------75-----------43------------------+32--------------------75


The same permutation would be reached if City lost 5-1 and Arsenal won 2-1 - you get the picture.

What makes this scenario even more complicated is that it could produce a third/fourth place play-off if Liverpool fail to beat Middlesbrough - or a fourth/fifth place play-off if the Reds win at Anfield.

Arsenal v Liverpool: Champions League on the line

The final scenario - and possibly the most plausible of the three - would leave Liverpool and Arsenal fighting for fourth place on the most perilous of knife-edges since they battled for the title on the final day of the 1988-89 season.

If Arsenal draw 1-1 with Everton and Liverpool lose 2-0 to Middlesbrough, this is how they would finish tied for fourth:

--------------Goals for---Goals against----Goal difference-------Points
Liverpool---------75-----------44------------------+31--------------------73
Arsenal-----------75-----------44------------------+31--------------------73

Other combinations of results which would leave the sides level would be a 2-2 Arsenal draw coupled with a 3-1 Liverpool defeat, or a 3-3 Arsenal draw if goal-shy Boro win 4-2 at Anfield, and so on.

The good news for Manchester City fans is that under this third scenario, they would finish third, whatever their result at Watford, and clinch that cherished Champions League group stage place."

[Dimples]

I don't expect Arsenal to give up - they are in with a real shout of CL qualification.

Beat Everton 3-0 and we lose 2-0 - they qualify, etc...
Beat Everton and Liverpool slip up - they qualify, etc...

They have a real chance.

[nottsblue]

There must a mistake in the scenario above. It has us conceding less than the dippers and the arse. I thought we had the worse defence on the top half?

Can't see us not getting the result we need at Watford though

[Mikhail Chigorin]

There must a mistake in the scenario above. It has us conceding less than the dippers and the arse. I thought we had the worse defence on the top half?

Can't see us not getting the result we need at Watford though

I'd settle now for the proverbial scrappy, boring, lucky 1-0 victory NB

We just need the three points irrespective of how we get them.

[nottsblue]

There must a mistake in the scenario above. It has us conceding less than the dippers and the arse. I thought we had the worse defence on the top half?

Can't see us not getting the result we need at Watford though

I'd settle now for the proverbial scrappy, boring, lucky 1-0 victory NB

We just need the three points irrespective of how we get them.

Never a truer word

[nottsblue]

There must a mistake in the scenario above. It has us conceding less than the dippers and the arse. I thought we had the worse defence on the top half?

Can't see us not getting the result we need at Watford though

I'd settle now for the proverbial scrappy, boring, lucky 1-0 victory NB

We just need the three points irrespective of how we get them.

Never a truer word

But when was the last time we had such a win?

[Foreverinbluedreams]

There must a mistake in the scenario above. It has us conceding less than the dippers and the arse. I thought we had the worse defence on the top half?

Can't see us not getting the result we need at Watford though

I'd settle now for the proverbial scrappy, boring, lucky 1-0 victory NB

We just need the three points irrespective of how we get them.

Never a truer word

But when was the last time we had such a win?

2nd leg against Steau in our CL qualifier

[nottsblue]

There must a mistake in the scenario above. It has us conceding less than the dippers and the arse. I thought we had the worse defence on the top half?

Can't see us not getting the result we need at Watford though

I'd settle now for the proverbial scrappy, boring, lucky 1-0 victory NB

We just need the three points irrespective of how we get them.

Never a truer word

But when was the last time we had such a win?

2nd leg against Steau in our CL qualifier

So 50 or so games ago. They seem to be a rare commodity in our part of town. The rags however.......