Robinho lessons to be learnt............

[ashton287]

firstly I hope by the time he comes back some of you have moved on to your next boo boy so he gets left alone

and secondly i think after the world cup if brazil do good when he comes back it will be like when he first got here again and he WAS awesome for us at first, plus we will be in the CL so he'll enjoy that.

sad video aswell, always been close with de jong hasnt he

[Original Dub]

He certainly seems to be saying that he expects to be back after the world cup in the video on the OS, as did Mancini in his PC, Robby Vid on OS

just saw that too...and really enjoyed watching it. i didn't feel like he was really leaving longterm. in fact, he seemed really really close with everyone. He seemed like an employee who isn't getting what he wants, but is really well liked by everyone. loads of smiles and hugs in that video which seemed really heartfelt and genuine.

i wonder if Dunga put him on notice that if he didnt get some footy he might not factor in his thinking too much?

regardless, he didn't seem like a player who wasn't coming back. I didn't see him hug Petrov tho. :)

also, he and Stevie talking is like a scene from a Guy Ritchie film. great communicators on the field, but...also, apparently Robinho is available by via text.

cheers

Saw that too, he's one hard guy to figure out.

[Wonderwall]

I'd say the lesson to be learn't from all this is that you dont sub a 32 mill pound player.And if you do then you can expect said player to engineer a move.
It may save the Sheikh a few months of wages but more than that nobody knows.
I would also wonder what kind of message this sends out to the stars of the game that we wish to attract.
It might be a lesson to them that if they come to city and are out of form for a few weeks a witchhunt is likely to be started.

Are you for real, mate? Robinho has put no effort in for months now, he deserved to be subbed even before he was at Goodison, and has shown the club and his teammates no respect as he never put in a good shift when he was played since the start of the season. I've been willing to cut him some slack at first because he was coming back from injury so he might have lacked match fitness, but enough is enough.

I am sure gloryhunter made that post in jest...if not he has not got a clue about the game.

[Im_Spartacus]

I'd say the lesson to be learn't from all this is that you dont sub a 32 mill pound player.And if you do then you can expect said player to engineer a move.
It may save the Sheikh a few months of wages but more than that nobody knows.
I would also wonder what kind of message this sends out to the stars of the game that we wish to attract.
It might be a lesson to them that if they come to city and are out of form for a few weeks a witchhunt is likely to be started.

Are you for real, mate? Robinho has put no effort in for months now, he deserved to be subbed even before he was at Goodison, and has shown the club and his teammates no respect as he never put in a good shift when he was played since the start of the season. I've been willing to cut him some slack at first because he was coming back from injury so he might have lacked match fitness, but enough is enough.

I am sure gloryhunter made that post in jest...if not he has not got a clue about the game.

My mune radar is going mental.

[petrov]

I've had Shaun Wright-Phillips tattooed on my cock. What am I gonna do if he leaves again??

Life size?

[paulmclaren]

I've had Shaun Wright-Phillips tattooed on my cock. What am I gonna do if he leaves again??

Same thing as your cock has been doing since he left the first time. Nothing.

hahaha good one.

[paulmclaren]

I've never understood the world class status knobinho has been given.
Everywhere, especially Madrid, he's been mostly on the bench coming on as a so called 'impact player'.
And he never done that very well.
All he does is a few step overs on the ball and suddenly he is world class?
In a league where the pace is alot slower and less physical then the premier league, i think he would flourish.
Proves how much of a passenger player he really is.

[One cap Whitey]

Its not likely to happen again though because the whole situation at City has changed.

We didn't sign Robinho only because he's a great player, it was the statement of intent at the time. The new owners wanted a big signing that day and got one. You can't measure his signing on what he did or didn't do on the pitch alone. Expensive PR, yes probably and maybe in the long run it will prove worthwhile. Sorry if that's stating the obvious.

[Original Dub]

Its not likely to happen again though because the whole situation at City has changed.

We didn't sign Robinho only because he's a great player, it was the statement of intent at the time. The new owners wanted a big signing that day and got one. You can't measure his signing on what he did or didn't do on the pitch alone. Expensive PR, yes probably and maybe in the long run it will prove worthwhile. Sorry if that's stating the obvious.

Dead right mate.

[Im_Spartacus]

Its not likely to happen again though because the whole situation at City has changed.

We didn't sign Robinho only because he's a great player, it was the statement of intent at the time. The new owners wanted a big signing that day and got one. You can't measure his signing on what he did or didn't do on the pitch alone. Expensive PR, yes probably and maybe in the long run it will prove worthwhile. Sorry if that's stating the obvious.

What I suppose it all boils down to is never, EVER sign a player your manager doesnt want.

Beginning of the end not just for the player, but also the manager - and look how its transpired.

I'd be interested to hear just how many similar situations where a manager is landed with a player he doesnt want have turned out positive medium / long term? Real Madrid anyone?

[Chewbacca]

i think he genuinly likes it at city and he will be back next season , mark my words

Thanks Jo x

[brite blu sky]

there are a lot of good points here.. particularly the fact that robson was a statement of intent initially and has served his purpose for that already.. also he probably wasnt ANY managers choice as far as i can make out, he was a marketing choice.
However put that aside and you still have to recognise that robbie is a very skillfull football player. If he has the all round game to survive in a prem team is now seriously in question.
He always seem to play best with Stevie.. i assume the skill and thinking level of the two of them were complementary and made Robbie more relaxed.. feel at home.. fluid.. perhaps cos he knew he could rely on at least one other players style.

If anything i would suggest we should have an in depth discussion of Robbies style in order to assess IF (assuming he has his confidence high), that he could have a second go at finding a 'role' in the team and succeeding in the prem.

For instance having the ball taken off you easily, repeatedly is defo not good!
Did that happen at Madrid? anyone remember?
will that happen in the Brazilian league.. will it happen in WC?
Lets see..

Can anyone really say that it is possible to 'understand' any single human being? i would say no. So for me it is very much still open season on Robbie. For instance i would not fall on the floor if he suddenly appeared in the central forward mid role at Santos and consistently performed well by dicking his marker and distrubuting well. i dont know how Santos play so i am just stating this as a way of saying i wouldnt be surprised. He always said here in Spain that he prefered to play centrally, and he said it was one of the things he was disappointed with life at Madrid always being played on the left.

maybe he got stuck in that position with us because he had to fit in somewhere and was known to play on the left by that time.
I seem to recall there was some debate when we bought him if he would play centrally or not. Maybe in training he was clearly exposed as not being able to cope with being the forward distrubutor in the english game. That wouldnt surprise me iether, based on how seamingly easily he can be robbed.
He is 26, not fast over ground, but fast with his feet and presumably thinking. Without direct line speed his game relies on positioning. It seems clear that his confidence dropped in the prem and with it his ability to beat defenders. But no-one seems to offer a reason as to why that is. I would suggest that it is a lack of upper body strength that allows him to get muscled off balance. Robson is small and light.. and isnt fast in a straight line and does't have the work rate. Doesnt sound good does it? He does have the quick feet, balance and thinking to sidestep players and nip in and out of spaces. He seems the perfect kind of player to always be hanging around the area, ready to run straight into it and cause havoc. Apart from that i have no idea what role he could play well in the prem because i have never seen him play as central forward mid. ( and boy any team in the prem that could afford to have a forward mid that did fuck all challenging would basically have to be shit hot.. like as solid as Chelsea and fluid as Arsenal in one package )

I can understand why Barca were really interested, because for any team to suit Robbie they would have to be playing well up the pitch.. in fact mostly in the opponents half. Believe me he would be an amazing addition to such a team, and would cause mayhem and be loving it. Barcas style would suit Robbie well. But as City intend to be the best team in the world, we are going to have to be even better than Barca, means we are going to have to dominate teams; most teams, in the Prem and Europe!

So as i am keeping an open mind i am waiting to see how he goes on at Santos, what sort of role he plays.. i am pretty much assuming he will get his confidence back in no time back there, see what happens.. if he plays a role we believe that he cant in the prem - then let him go to Barca. If he shows a different side of himself at Santos.. more of a playmaker... then i would be one of the peeps saying give him another chance to try in the prem with us, if he aslo really wanted to do that, obviously.

What would sway me more though would be that our current team had evolved well enough under Bobby to be playing consistently against top AND bottom sides, at home AND away.. solidly higher up the pitch and dominating games more. If we were that good by the end of this season i would defo get robson back in sky blue.

But that is a big ask to do in a short space of time. and tbh is the topic of another thread for sure. But i for one will be keeping an eye on Robinho as i am as yet not convinced that his time in sky blue is completely over.

[ashton287]

there are a lot of good points here.. particularly the fact that robson was a statement of intent initially and has served his purpose for that already.. also he probably wasnt ANY managers choice as far as i can make out, he was a marketing choice.
However put that aside and you still have to recognise that robbie is a very skillfull football player. If he has the all round game to survive in a prem team is now seriously in question.
He always seem to play best with Stevie.. i assume the skill and thinking level of the two of them were complementary and made Robbie more relaxed.. feel at home.. fluid.. perhaps cos he knew he could rely on at least one other players style.

If anything i would suggest we should have an in depth discussion of Robbies style in order to assess IF (assuming he has his confidence high), that he could have a second go at finding a 'role' in the team and succeeding in the prem.

For instance having the ball taken off you easily, repeatedly is defo not good!
Did that happen at Madrid? anyone remember?
will that happen in the Brazilian league.. will it happen in WC?
Lets see..

Can anyone really say that it is possible to 'understand' any single human being? i would say no. So for me it is very much still open season on Robbie. For instance i would not fall on the floor if he suddenly appeared in the central forward mid role at Santos and consistently performed well by dicking his marker and distrubuting well. i dont know how Santos play so i am just stating this as a way of saying i wouldnt be surprised. He always said here in Spain that he prefered to play centrally, and he said it was one of the things he was disappointed with life at Madrid always being played on the left.

maybe he got stuck in that position with us because he had to fit in somewhere and was known to play on the left by that time.
I seem to recall there was some debate when we bought him if he would play centrally or not. Maybe in training he was clearly exposed as not being able to cope with being the forward distrubutor in the english game. That wouldnt surprise me iether, based on how seamingly easily he can be robbed.
He is 26, not fast over ground, but fast with his feet and presumably thinking. Without direct line speed his game relies on positioning. It seems clear that his confidence dropped in the prem and with it his ability to beat defenders. But no-one seems to offer a reason as to why that is. I would suggest that it is a lack of upper body strength that allows him to get muscled off balance. Robson is small and light.. and isnt fast in a straight line and does't have the work rate. Doesnt sound good does it? He does have the quick feet, balance and thinking to sidestep players and nip in and out of spaces. He seems the perfect kind of player to always be hanging around the area, ready to run straight into it and cause havoc. Apart from that i have no idea what role he could play well in the prem because i have never seen him play as central forward mid. ( and boy any team in the prem that could afford to have a forward mid that did fuck all challenging would basically have to be shit hot.. like as solid as Chelsea and fluid as Arsenal in one package )

I can understand why Barca were really interested, because for any team to suit Robbie they would have to be playing well up the pitch.. in fact mostly in the opponents half. Believe me he would be an amazing addition to such a team, and would cause mayhem and be loving it. Barcas style would suit Robbie well. But as City intend to be the best team in the world, we are going to have to be even better than Barca, means we are going to have to dominate teams; most teams, in the Prem and Europe!

So as i am keeping an open mind i am waiting to see how he goes on at Santos, what sort of role he plays.. i am pretty much assuming he will get his confidence back in no time back there, see what happens.. if he plays a role we believe that he cant in the prem - then let him go to Barca. If he shows a different side of himself at Santos.. more of a playmaker... then i would be one of the peeps saying give him another chance to try in the prem with us, if he aslo really wanted to do that, obviously.

What would sway me more though would be that our current team had evolved well enough under Bobby to be playing consistently against top AND bottom sides, at home AND away.. solidly higher up the pitch and dominating games more. If we were that good by the end of this season i would defo get robson back in sky blue.

But that is a big ask to do in a short space of time. and tbh is the topic of another thread for sure. But i for one will be keeping an eye on Robinho as i am as yet not convinced that his time in sky blue is completely over.

The highlighted part is as far as i got before i decided this is too long to read and im going pub

[mr_nool]

there are a lot of good points here.. particularly the fact that robson was a statement of intent initially and has served his purpose for that already.. also he probably wasnt ANY managers choice as far as i can make out, he was a marketing choice.
However put that aside and you still have to recognise that robbie is a very skillfull football player. If he has the all round game to survive in a prem team is now seriously in question.
He always seem to play best with Stevie.. i assume the skill and thinking level of the two of them were complementary and made Robbie more relaxed.. feel at home.. fluid.. perhaps cos he knew he could rely on at least one other players style.

If anything i would suggest we should have an in depth discussion of Robbies style in order to assess IF (assuming he has his confidence high), that he could have a second go at finding a 'role' in the team and succeeding in the prem.

For instance having the ball taken off you easily, repeatedly is defo not good!
Did that happen at Madrid? anyone remember?
will that happen in the Brazilian league.. will it happen in WC?
Lets see..

Can anyone really say that it is possible to 'understand' any single human being? i would say no. So for me it is very much still open season on Robbie. For instance i would not fall on the floor if he suddenly appeared in the central forward mid role at Santos and consistently performed well by dicking his marker and distrubuting well. i dont know how Santos play so i am just stating this as a way of saying i wouldnt be surprised. He always said here in Spain that he prefered to play centrally, and he said it was one of the things he was disappointed with life at Madrid always being played on the left.

maybe he got stuck in that position with us because he had to fit in somewhere and was known to play on the left by that time.
I seem to recall there was some debate when we bought him if he would play centrally or not. Maybe in training he was clearly exposed as not being able to cope with being the forward distrubutor in the english game. That wouldnt surprise me iether, based on how seamingly easily he can be robbed.
He is 26, not fast over ground, but fast with his feet and presumably thinking. Without direct line speed his game relies on positioning. It seems clear that his confidence dropped in the prem and with it his ability to beat defenders. But no-one seems to offer a reason as to why that is. I would suggest that it is a lack of upper body strength that allows him to get muscled off balance. Robson is small and light.. and isnt fast in a straight line and does't have the work rate. Doesnt sound good does it? He does have the quick feet, balance and thinking to sidestep players and nip in and out of spaces. He seems the perfect kind of player to always be hanging around the area, ready to run straight into it and cause havoc. Apart from that i have no idea what role he could play well in the prem because i have never seen him play as central forward mid. ( and boy any team in the prem that could afford to have a forward mid that did fuck all challenging would basically have to be shit hot.. like as solid as Chelsea and fluid as Arsenal in one package )

I can understand why Barca were really interested, because for any team to suit Robbie they would have to be playing well up the pitch.. in fact mostly in the opponents half. Believe me he would be an amazing addition to such a team, and would cause mayhem and be loving it. Barcas style would suit Robbie well. But as City intend to be the best team in the world, we are going to have to be even better than Barca, means we are going to have to dominate teams; most teams, in the Prem and Europe!

So as i am keeping an open mind i am waiting to see how he goes on at Santos, what sort of role he plays.. i am pretty much assuming he will get his confidence back in no time back there, see what happens.. if he plays a role we believe that he cant in the prem - then let him go to Barca. If he shows a different side of himself at Santos.. more of a playmaker... then i would be one of the peeps saying give him another chance to try in the prem with us, if he aslo really wanted to do that, obviously.

What would sway me more though would be that our current team had evolved well enough under Bobby to be playing consistently against top AND bottom sides, at home AND away.. solidly higher up the pitch and dominating games more. If we were that good by the end of this season i would defo get robson back in sky blue.

But that is a big ask to do in a short space of time. and tbh is the topic of another thread for sure. But i for one will be keeping an eye on Robinho as i am as yet not convinced that his time in sky blue is completely over.

The highlighted part is as far as i got before i decided this is too long to read and im going pub

But that's also the major point. Too bad he didn't work out in the long run, but he did fulfill his most important mission - being a statement of intent. We quickly needed to show ou intent: that wew were serious, that we had the cash, that we were to challange the established top. Who better to help us do that at the last day of the transfer wimdowbut Robinho. Yes, we were also in the race for Berbaflop. I doubt that he'd done much better for us than Robinho, and he'd certainly wouldn't have been a better poster boy for our intentions.

[Beefymcfc]

What great work by Cooke/Marwood/Mancio for playing hard ball and not letting him go on his/their terms.

[Steve]

We could learn some lessons too. Like not join in with the media and slag off a player who is injured. Robinho wouldn't turn up for a game away at Scunthorpe on a cold sunday evening in january. He wasn't trying.

Last season we were lapping it up, this season he gets injured and we all changed out tune. sad.

[Beefymcfc]

We could learn some lessons too. Like not join in with the media and slag off a player who is injured. Robinho wouldn't turn up for a game away at Scunthorpe on a cold sunday evening in january. He wasn't trying.

Last season we were lapping it up, this season he gets injured and we all changed out tune. sad.

Very true Steve, very true. I suppose we've got Shay at the moment though ain't we!

[Feed The Goat]

We could learn some lessons too. Like not join in with the media and slag off a player who is injured. Robinho wouldn't turn up for a game away at Scunthorpe on a cold sunday evening in january. He wasn't trying.

Last season we were lapping it up, this season he gets injured and we all changed out tune. sad.

Very true Steve, very true. I suppose we've got Shay at the moment though ain't we!

agree with that. I lost count of how many times robbie was slated around me for bein tackled or not tackling back. But then petrov warms up and and everyone gives it the big du du du du like he will somehow of learned how to tackle or not runaway from a challenge.

When u ask what could we learn well I thought we had learnt everything after the fans forced Edgehill out the club.

Football is a team game it takes a whole team to be good equally it takes a whole team to be shit that's what alot could learn.

[john68]

For the owners...Not to buy a player for any other reason than football.
For Robbie...The pem is a physically hard place and as well as skill, you gotta be tough and strong.
For the fans...Stop being too quick to judge.

I think much of this episode of our history has been a media festival. It has allowed the pundits to sensationalise non stories and speculate to their hearts content.

For me, I don't think anyt of this is massively sensational. Mancini has identified that Robbie is a special player who can ake a difference when used in certain conditions.
Robbie needs regular football to ensure being in the brazil WC squad.
Mancini understands that. He also understands that by going home he may regain his passion and his confidence again. This loan period benefits everyone. I expect him back for the next season and Mancini will take it from there.

[MSG77]

maybe he got stuck in that position with us because he had to fit in somewhere and was known to play on the left by that time.
I seem to recall there was some debate when we bought him if he would play centrally or not. Maybe in training he was clearly exposed as not being able to cope with being the forward distrubutor in the english game. That wouldnt surprise me iether, based on how seamingly easily he can be robbed.
He is 26, not fast over ground, but fast with his feet and presumably thinking. Without direct line speed his game relies on positioning. It seems clear that his confidence dropped in the prem and with it his ability to beat defenders. But no-one seems to offer a reason as to why that is. I would suggest that it is a lack of upper body strength that allows him to get muscled off balance. Robson is small and light.. and isn't fast in a straight line and doesn't have the work rate. Doesnt sound good does it? He does have the quick feet, balance and thinking to sidestep players and nip in and out of spaces. He seems the perfect kind of player to always be hanging around the area, ready to run straight into it and cause havoc. Apart from that i have no idea what role he could play well in the prem because i have never seen him play as central forward mid. ( and boy any team in the prem that could afford to have a forward mid that did fuck all challenging would basically have to be shit hot.. like as solid as Chelsea and fluid as Arsenal in one package )

This was a good post. Maybe a bit too long, but some good points.

This paragraph hits the nail on the head though.

Robbie really isn't a left wing. He lacks pace and isn't that great going to his left anyway. We basically tried to hide this a bit last year by having him out wide by himself quite a bit on the left. If he got the ball, he'd try to dance and make moves to get some space to the inside.

Once opponents figured him out, he's not that effective. You can ignore all the dancing and just stay in front of him. If he goes left, he's coming back right eventually. When he does, you can close him down because he isn't that fast and take the ball off him by muscling him. He won't fight to get it back either.

For him to be successful, he needs to play in a very creative team. He needs the little one-twos and quick interplay. Why he was better with Elano and Ireland last season. Not to say it was always that way. In fact, it was basically that way when it was warm and he was at home.

He's not a left wing, he obviously can't play in the center midfield because he has no defensive game at all. So the best role for him is central and forward. He's obviously not a target so doesn't fit as the lead striker. More of a secondary support role.

It would seem he is affected by the cold.

It would seem he is affected by the away crowd. Maybe not comfortable with people right on top of the pitch? Don't a lot of other stadiums around the world have much more isolated stands? It seems they all have a track behind the goal, or if not a lot of fencing keeping the fans separate. Does it get to Robby? Don't know, but it seems he gets affected very negatively away.

He lacks straight-line pace in a fast league. He lacks size and muscle in a physical league.

So all of that adds up to it not looking too likely he'll be successful long-term in England. If he was, it would have to be in an advanced role of a very creative team with him having little defensive responsibilities. And he might not play well away from home or when its cold. That's a very expensive bit part to have.

I thought at the beginning of the year our best lineup would be

----- NDJ Barry

Tevez Ireland Robbie

-----------Ade

I thought you could have DeJong play the true DM role just holding in front of the back 4. Barry could be much more of a playmaker and distributor (which he was at Villa) but also cover for Robbie. Ireland could get the ball in a more forward spot and distribute but still cover back. I just thought that front 4 would have great interplay and cause tons of problems for other teams. We might be a bit weak on D, but we'd knock in goals easy.

Ireland's been hurt and off the form he showed last year. Robbie hurt and nowhere near the form he was at to start last year. Barry good early, not good at all for the most part since. Is he hurt as well? Tevez better than I ever would have thought. Ade good early, fallen off as well.

Basically forced us to go with SWP and Bellamy (or Petrov) as pure wingers in a 4-4-2. DeJong and Barry not joining the play upfield and being creative. That game really doesn't play at all into Robinho's style.

Who knows. Maybe we'll get healthy, Robbie regains his form at Santos, we sign some more good players and everything works out. But I doubt it. Just doesn't seem that he'd get enough opportunity to play because the environment here isn't suited to his game. He's talented, but probably not tough enough to play in the PL.

Hard to believe how different things are from the beginning of last year when some people were worried "Hughes will force the Brazilians out of the club". Now it would seem they're all gone - Hughes, Robbie, Jo, Elano, Berti.