Lets Panic

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Re: Lets Panic

Postby clawbaggio » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:30 pm

Do you think our poor away form has coincided with the return of Nige? Gone back to playing how we did last season - overpassing and too slow.
Nasri also slows it down too much, he wants too many touches of the ball, doesn't move it on quickly enough.
And what's wrong with getting some crosses into the box (other than we would then need to get some players in the box as well). Its worked for Chelski tonight.
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Re: Lets Panic

Postby Beefymcfc » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:40 pm

clawbaggio wrote:Do you think our poor away form has coincided with the return of Nige? Gone back to playing how we did last season - overpassing and too slow.
Nasri also slows it down too much, he wants too many touches of the ball, doesn't move it on quickly enough.
And what's wrong with getting some crosses into the box (other than we would then need to get some players in the box as well). Its worked for Chelski tonight.

Not Nige, I don't think, he's given a job to do and we know he can get forward as per the last Holland game.

Nasri, that's a wierd one as he used to run at the back 4 for Arsenal but I think our slow play leaves him no room to run into.

Crosses, or moreover, getting it to the line, is our *downfall (*not really the word I'd use but it fits) and is one of the tactics we haven't used for a while, even though it's brought us success.

You've got a point fella, one that many are seeing of late.
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Re: Lets Panic

Postby Original Dub » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:58 pm

How many of our players actually run at the defence?

One and he's not back yet.
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Re: Lets Panic

Postby clawbaggio » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:58 pm

You're right. Nasri was twinkle-toes for Arse at the start of last season, waltzing through and scoring goals, but then finished the season shit (probably after I put him in my Fantasy team)!
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Re: Lets Panic

Postby Ted Hughes » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:48 pm

If DeJong & Barry & Nasri play in the same team, it's usually not right.

I would just have one as a starter. Barry would usually be my choice but he hasn't looked right recently & the fact that he apparently has a back injury may have something to do with it.
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Re: Lets Panic

Postby clawbaggio » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:58 pm

Gaz Baz was having a great season until he went to rat shit a few games ago. Maybe an injury explains it?
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Re: Lets Panic

Postby Ted Hughes » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:20 pm

Several times during his City career, he has gone to shit & each time it's transpired that he's been carrying an injury. I think when you're as slow as Barry, you need everything to be working at 100% in order to perform to the required level. We saw that in the World Cup when they played him injured.
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Re: Lets Panic

Postby getdressedmctavish » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:49 am

agreeing all this. In my view the Barry de Jong idea was proved wank as long ago as under Hughes. To me the player who should have been used and groomed is Milner because he has the engine and can both hold and score. My belief is he isn't rated because of his technical flaws and fuck knows he's frustrated me at times. But I believe most managers would have given him a real go in cm. However, Mancini only has eyes for Ya Ya, even when he isn't there..........Is he really gonna play Savic again Thursday????????????????
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Re: Lets Panic

Postby Im_Spartacus » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:18 am

Nigels Tackle wrote:
i don't buy this. yes, we pass the ball around a lot but we average c.20 attempts on goal in every game home and away. we had 18 attempts on sunday, 13 of them on target. we are wasteful... i started a tongue in cheek thread entitled 'livid' after the blackburn game a few weeks back in response to the missed opportunities in that match. we should have scored 8 that night and then a similar number vs bolton. ok, so keepers making great saves comes into it but home many times have we seen our boys blast the ball high over the bar or hit it straight at the keeper from close range in recent weeks??

to back up my argument....

everton away 17 attempts on goal 11 on target
west brom away 18 and 9
sunderland 25 and 11
swansea 18 and 13

that's 78 attempts on goal 44 of which were on target yielding no fucking goals. that's embarrassing

edit 2:

stats from 3 of the rags luckiest wins this season

spurs 6 attempts, 5 on target - 3 goals
norwich 11 attempts, 9 on target - 2 goals
everton 7 attempts, 6 on target - 1 goal

in 3 games that they won, they had fewer attempts on goal than we did in our game vs sunderland. the reason that they are ahead of us is because they take their chances. we don't.


you have inadvertantly hit the nail right on the head with your post. Its not about the number of chances we get, its about the type of chance it is. You said "how many times have we hit it over the bar or smashed it straight at the keeper"

This is the very crux of the matter, and i would argue that itis not wasteful, it is that the chances we create are usually from threading the ball through the middle, by which time the attacking player turns to face goal and has an onrushing keeper to deal with. The ball invariably ends up over the bar or hitting the keeper by simple laws of averages.

Compare that to many of the goals you see the rags score, sweeping move, ball goes out wide, crossed in, rooney or someone else is in acres of space with a free header/shot and an eternity till it reaches him to decide what to do with it. They also score goals from outside the area with regularity.

Goals from outside the area come from not having a sea of defenders in front of you. However we press so high up the pitch, there is always going to be is sea, and its going to be rare that a player either gets the space, and does not have bodies in the way.

We have to try to play a little deeper, to give the forwards space to run onto passes, rather than recieve a pass and expect them to do miracles with the ball at their feet.
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Re: Lets Panic

Postby Original Dub » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:34 pm

True.

Actually, how many times do you see us with a ball over the top and an on running forward?

It doesn't happen, but it happens the other top teams at least once in each game.

A big part of it is lack of pace, another is slowly pressing further up the field until there is a full line of defence to break down.

We need width and pace. One player might even provide both? Its glaringly obvious.
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Re: Lets Panic

Postby Ted Hughes » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:46 pm

everton away 17 attempts on goal 11 on target
west brom away 18 and 9
sunderland 25 and 11
swansea 18 and 13

Those stats may look like a lot of chances but how many were actually genuine chances ? I'll answer that myself; hardly any, in all 4 games put together, very very few genuine chances. Think back, how many times v Swansea did you think " fuck we should have scored there " ? Any at all ? Thse stats say 18 & 13 yet we can't remember one bad miss.

V Everton Nasri hit the bar, anything else, any glaring misses ? V Sunderland, Dzeko had a couple of really good snap shots but how many times did we actually think we missed a sitter ? West Brom ? Same.

Nope, those stats are misleading, we have created hardly any genuine goalscoring opportunities in any of those games.
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Re: Lets Panic

Postby brite blu sky » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:54 pm

Im_Spartacus wrote:you have inadvertantly hit the nail right on the head with your post. Its not about the number of chances we get, its about the type of chance it is. You said "how many times have we hit it over the bar or smashed it straight at the keeper"

This is the very crux of the matter, and i would argue that itis not wasteful, it is that the chances we create are usually from threading the ball through the middle, by which time the attacking player turns to face goal and has an onrushing keeper to deal with. The ball invariably ends up over the bar or hitting the keeper by simple laws of averages.

Compare that to many of the goals you see the rags score, sweeping move, ball goes out wide, crossed in, rooney or someone else is in acres of space with a free header/shot and an eternity till it reaches him to decide what to do with it. They also score goals from outside the area with regularity.

Goals from outside the area come from not having a sea of defenders in front of you. However we press so high up the pitch, there is always going to be is sea, and its going to be rare that a player either gets the space, and does not have bodies in the way.

We have to try to play a little deeper, to give the forwards space to run onto passes, rather than recieve a pass and expect them to do miracles with the ball at their feet.


I think this is starting to get it about right. The lack of urgency (for whatever reason that exists at the moment) allows the dynamic on the field to stack the odds against opportunity. Less chance to shoot on goal cos too many bodies, less space to exploit, less time etc etc etc. More urgency would solve that to some extent.
So why have we lost the urgency we had earlier?
My take is that the players know this and are trying to deal with it.. but trying too hard to be perfect and stuttering. Otherwise I don't have a plausible explanation.

I do think that there is an attempt to emulate barca.. obviously for good reason. But as i have been saying since the year dot, City/Mancini have to take the best and improve it, not just try to make a cheap copy. A high proportion of barca games are not worth the effort to watch, they know they are going to win, the oppo as well so you get this slow cat and caged mouse game where barca try to engineer the perfect opening for Messi or Xavi to run in and tap it in. It is fuclin boring and I for one seriously hope City do not go down that route.. and there are alarming signs that they already are.

Personally I believe the answer is in the excert I posted earlier in this thread. We played Bolton? I cant remember exactly now, but we closed them down very high up the pitch like we were rabid.. and totally wiped them out, great game full of energy, quick thinking, speed of play.
For me it starts there, if the team can't be bothered to close down they are not putting the effort in and are not fully awake to what they are doing and it is a slippy slope to mediocracy, uncertainty and mistakes.

As Spartacus points out it is the type of chances that football is all about. Winning the ball back nearly always leaves the opposition in some way with it's pants down..or at least on the wrong foot. Simple from trying to go forwards to shifting your weight to go back is a moment in time that, eg. David Silva, can have completely destroyed your teamwork.

I had expected City to go through a difficult patch while they try in earnest to click properly, during this time they try TOO hard. eez normal! I had expected that would have happened by now.. but maybe it needed the lead to go and the pressure to really fuclin kick in for minds to clear and natural ability and instinct to take over.

In short if we play with urgency the rest will eventually come, our players are too good a quality for anything else to happen.

Someone soon is going to get a tonking.. I think City and Mancini are pussy footing around still.. so it maynot be till we go to the Emirates that this happens. I wouldn't be surprised either.
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Re: Lets Panic

Postby PeterParker » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:00 pm

Ted Hughes wrote:everton away 17 attempts on goal 11 on target
west brom away 18 and 9
sunderland 25 and 11
swansea 18 and 13

Those stats may look like a lot of chances but how many were actually genuine chances ? I'll answer that myself; hardly any, in all 4 games put together, very very few genuine chances. Think back, how many times v Swansea did you think " fuck we should have scored there " ? Any at all ? Thse stats say 18 & 13 yet we can't remember one bad miss.

V Everton Nasri hit the bar, anything else, any glaring misses ? V Sunderland, Dzeko had a couple of really good snap shots but how many times did we actually think we missed a sitter ? West Brom ? Same.

Nope, those stats are misleading, we have created hardly any genuine goalscoring opportunities in any of those games.


This^

We had 5 major chances with Everton, Wba, Sunderland and Swansea.

Everton - Nasri hit the post
Wba - Goal disallowed Balo and one huge flop from Kun one on one with Foster
Sunderland - Dzeko hit the post
Swansea - That shot that Yaya had after those consecutive corners.

we can add 2 : Aj ht the bar with Villa and Dzeko and Aguero missed from the 6 yard box with Wigan. 7 real chances from 6 games.

That is a horrible list, if you ask me.
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Re: Lets Panic

Postby Ted Hughes » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:16 pm

I think it's dead simple. We put 6 past the rags. That's our problem.

There was a QPR supporter on the radio a week or so ago, lamenting how poor and half hearted they had been in many games, he mentioned v the rags, then he said "the only game where we've really turned up was against Man City ". An Everton fan said something similar a short while ago, lamenting their pathetic effort levels v rags.

Teams have shut up shop against us in a way rarely seen in the Premier League because there has rarely been a team who can play like us. If we play shit, as in the 1st half v Swansea, sure they will come out & have a go, but once we start to pass the ball, they drop back into a wall in front of the box. Even Chelsea did that v us yet played wide open like Brian Horton's City v the rags (twice).

The way around it was shown v Blackburn at home. Width & tempo. We had AJ hugging the right, & Silva + Aguero taking turns to get chalk on their boots on the left. Our midfield fired the ball quickly from one side to the other. We were different that day to any other game this season. No team in the league could live with that. Our pass & move game, plus width, played at tempo is unstoppable. If we had done that at Swansea, we would have throttled them, but we didn't, we strolled around the middle.

Chuck on wide players & go for it at tempo, fire the ball into the box & if neccessary, play Aguero, Balotelli, Dzeko & Tevez at the same time for the second half & tell all of them to cross, shoot & keep doing it over & over & over until it goes in.
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Re: Lets Panic

Postby Original Dub » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:29 pm

Ted Hughes wrote:I think it's dead simple. We put 6 past the rags. That's our problem.

There was a QPR supporter on the radio a week or so ago, lamenting how poor and half hearted they had been in many games, he mentioned v the rags, then he said "the only game where we've really turned up was against Man City ". An Everton fan said something similar a short while ago, lamenting their pathetic effort levels v rags.

Teams have shut up shop against us in a way rarely seen in the Premier League because there has rarely been a team who can play like us. If we play shit, as in the 1st half v Swansea, sure they will come out & have a go, but once we start to pass the ball, they drop back into a wall in front of the box. Even Chelsea did that v us yet played wide open like Brian Horton's City v the rags (twice).

The way around it was shown v Blackburn at home. Width & tempo. We had AJ hugging the right, & Silva + Aguero taking turns to get chalk on their boots on the left. Our midfield fired the ball quickly from one side to the other. We were different that day to any other game this season. No team in the league could live with that. Our pass & move game, plus width, played at tempo is unstoppable. If we had done that at Swansea, we would have throttled them, but we didn't, we strolled around the middle.

Chuck on wide players & go for it at tempo, fire the ball into the box & if neccessary, play Aguero, Balotelli, Dzeko & Tevez at the same time for the second half & tell all of them to cross, shoot & keep doing it over & over & over until it goes in.


Amen!

We have to do this tonight. I think this game and how we perform will shape the title run in.
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Re: Lets Panic

Postby brite blu sky » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:48 pm

Ted Hughes wrote:I think it's dead simple. We put 6 past the rags. That's our problem.

There was a QPR supporter on the radio a week or so ago, lamenting how poor and half hearted they had been in many games, he mentioned v the rags, then he said "the only game where we've really turned up was against Man City ". An Everton fan said something similar a short while ago, lamenting their pathetic effort levels v rags.

Teams have shut up shop against us in a way rarely seen in the Premier League because there has rarely been a team who can play like us. If we play shit, as in the 1st half v Swansea, sure they will come out & have a go, but once we start to pass the ball, they drop back into a wall in front of the box. Even Chelsea did that v us yet played wide open like Brian Horton's City v the rags (twice).

The way around it was shown v Blackburn at home. Width & tempo. We had AJ hugging the right, & Silva + Aguero taking turns to get chalk on their boots on the left. Our midfield fired the ball quickly from one side to the other. We were different that day to any other game this season. No team in the league could live with that. Our pass & move game, plus width, played at tempo is unstoppable. If we had done that at Swansea, we would have throttled them, but we didn't, we strolled around the middle.

Chuck on wide players & go for it at tempo, fire the ball into the box & if neccessary, play Aguero, Balotelli, Dzeko & Tevez at the same time for the second half & tell all of them to cross, shoot & keep doing it over & over & over until it goes in.


I think it was the BB game I was meaning above. Closing down very high up and passing with speed.

Conclusion: We can do it... when the tactics are right?, when the oppo are compliant?, when the players are awake? When they feel like it? When everyone is on form? When they relax, take 'risks' and don't try too hard?

Ultimately what we dont like to take into consideration as fans, cos we tend to be one season orientated at best, is that the getting it right is a process of development and learning... is there a rule book for that? is there a set time frame?

The answer is no. This set of players with this manager will come good, very good, for 95 to 100% of games.
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Re: Lets Panic

Postby Ted Hughes » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:10 pm

brite blu sky wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:I think it's dead simple. We put 6 past the rags. That's our problem.

There was a QPR supporter on the radio a week or so ago, lamenting how poor and half hearted they had been in many games, he mentioned v the rags, then he said "the only game where we've really turned up was against Man City ". An Everton fan said something similar a short while ago, lamenting their pathetic effort levels v rags.

Teams have shut up shop against us in a way rarely seen in the Premier League because there has rarely been a team who can play like us. If we play shit, as in the 1st half v Swansea, sure they will come out & have a go, but once we start to pass the ball, they drop back into a wall in front of the box. Even Chelsea did that v us yet played wide open like Brian Horton's City v the rags (twice).

The way around it was shown v Blackburn at home. Width & tempo. We had AJ hugging the right, & Silva + Aguero taking turns to get chalk on their boots on the left. Our midfield fired the ball quickly from one side to the other. We were different that day to any other game this season. No team in the league could live with that. Our pass & move game, plus width, played at tempo is unstoppable. If we had done that at Swansea, we would have throttled them, but we didn't, we strolled around the middle.

Chuck on wide players & go for it at tempo, fire the ball into the box & if neccessary, play Aguero, Balotelli, Dzeko & Tevez at the same time for the second half & tell all of them to cross, shoot & keep doing it over & over & over until it goes in.


I think it was the BB game I was meaning above. Closing down very high up and passing with speed.

Conclusion: We can do it... when the tactics are right?, when the oppo are compliant?, when the players are awake? When they feel like it? When everyone is on form? When they relax, take 'risks' and don't try too hard?

Ultimately what we dont like to take into consideration as fans, cos we tend to be one season orientated at best, is that the getting it right is a process of development and learning... is there a rule book for that? is there a set time frame?

The answer is no. This set of players with this manager will come good, very good, for 95 to 100% of games.


I think all the development stuff is now for the summer. It's balls out 'we're better than you' football which is required.

A tactical game is probably required v rags & Arsenal to some extent but for the rest of them, we have the players to just steamroller them. Just go for it, chuck everything at them trying to score goals as if our lives depended on it. Which is the point of the thread I suppose; a frenzy of attacking football. There's no time to be nervous or ponderous if you're going full tilt, balls out for the win, the adrenaline is pumping already.

If we chuck in the kitchen sink, we will win all those other games imo & the title will come down to the Arsenal & Utd games (provided rags handle the pressure of us winning without them slipping up, which I'm not convinced they will if we press them).

We can crush all of these fuckers, but not unless we really get stuck in; we can't cruise through it any longer.
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Re: Lets Panic

Postby Im_Spartacus » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:29 pm

brite blu sky wrote:
Im_Spartacus wrote:you have inadvertantly hit the nail right on the head with your post. Its not about the number of chances we get, its about the type of chance it is. You said "how many times have we hit it over the bar or smashed it straight at the keeper"

This is the very crux of the matter, and i would argue that itis not wasteful, it is that the chances we create are usually from threading the ball through the middle, by which time the attacking player turns to face goal and has an onrushing keeper to deal with. The ball invariably ends up over the bar or hitting the keeper by simple laws of averages.

Compare that to many of the goals you see the rags score, sweeping move, ball goes out wide, crossed in, rooney or someone else is in acres of space with a free header/shot and an eternity till it reaches him to decide what to do with it. They also score goals from outside the area with regularity.

Goals from outside the area come from not having a sea of defenders in front of you. However we press so high up the pitch, there is always going to be is sea, and its going to be rare that a player either gets the space, and does not have bodies in the way.

We have to try to play a little deeper, to give the forwards space to run onto passes, rather than recieve a pass and expect them to do miracles with the ball at their feet.


I think this is starting to get it about right. The lack of urgency (for whatever reason that exists at the moment) allows the dynamic on the field to stack the odds against opportunity. Less chance to shoot on goal cos too many bodies, less space to exploit, less time etc etc etc. More urgency would solve that to some extent.
So why have we lost the urgency we had earlier?
My take is that the players know this and are trying to deal with it.. but trying too hard to be perfect and stuttering. Otherwise I don't have a plausible explanation.

I do think that there is an attempt to emulate barca.. obviously for good reason. But as i have been saying since the year dot, City/Mancini have to take the best and improve it, not just try to make a cheap copy. A high proportion of barca games are not worth the effort to watch, they know they are going to win, the oppo as well so you get this slow cat and caged mouse game where barca try to engineer the perfect opening for Messi or Xavi to run in and tap it in. It is fuclin boring and I for one seriously hope City do not go down that route.. and there are alarming signs that they already are.

Personally I believe the answer is in the excert I posted earlier in this thread. We played Bolton? I cant remember exactly now, but we closed them down very high up the pitch like we were rabid.. and totally wiped them out, great game full of energy, quick thinking, speed of play.
For me it starts there, if the team can't be bothered to close down they are not putting the effort in and are not fully awake to what they are doing and it is a slippy slope to mediocracy, uncertainty and mistakes.

As Spartacus points out it is the type of chances that football is all about. Winning the ball back nearly always leaves the opposition in some way with it's pants down..or at least on the wrong foot. Simple from trying to go forwards to shifting your weight to go back is a moment in time that, eg. David Silva, can have completely destroyed your teamwork.

I had expected City to go through a difficult patch while they try in earnest to click properly, during this time they try TOO hard. eez normal! I had expected that would have happened by now.. but maybe it needed the lead to go and the pressure to really fuclin kick in for minds to clear and natural ability and instinct to take over.

In short if we play with urgency the rest will eventually come, our players are too good a quality for anything else to happen.

Someone soon is going to get a tonking.. I think City and Mancini are pussy footing around still.. so it maynot be till we go to the Emirates that this happens. I wouldn't be surprised either.


Even if you don't get a shot away from a cross, the chances are that if you set yourselves up correctly you win the 2nd ball and get another immedate bite at the cherry - THIS IS PRESSURE, relentless pressure on the box. The defence and midfield are so focused on defending the immediate danger, they leave the 2nd ball outside the box largely uncontested.

The way we play, we put relentless pressure on the area in front of the box, and zero pressure on the danger area if the defence stands strong. If we miss a pass or lose the ball, it is often a while until we get it back, then we build slowly and put pressure on the area in front of the defence again.

It's just not good enough - and look at how we scored all the goals vs the rags and Spurs. Quick breaks, crosses and shots from outside the area on the whole - none of this tippy tappy bollocks.

Never thought I would say that I don't like this passing football - but we need to turn it in from time to time and play football rather than try to bore the opposition to death
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Re: Lets Panic

Postby DoomMerchant » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:37 pm

Ted Hughes wrote:
brite blu sky wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:I think it's dead simple. We put 6 past the rags. That's our problem.

There was a QPR supporter on the radio a week or so ago, lamenting how poor and half hearted they had been in many games, he mentioned v the rags, then he said "the only game where we've really turned up was against Man City ". An Everton fan said something similar a short while ago, lamenting their pathetic effort levels v rags.

Teams have shut up shop against us in a way rarely seen in the Premier League because there has rarely been a team who can play like us. If we play shit, as in the 1st half v Swansea, sure they will come out & have a go, but once we start to pass the ball, they drop back into a wall in front of the box. Even Chelsea did that v us yet played wide open like Brian Horton's City v the rags (twice).

The way around it was shown v Blackburn at home. Width & tempo. We had AJ hugging the right, & Silva + Aguero taking turns to get chalk on their boots on the left. Our midfield fired the ball quickly from one side to the other. We were different that day to any other game this season. No team in the league could live with that. Our pass & move game, plus width, played at tempo is unstoppable. If we had done that at Swansea, we would have throttled them, but we didn't, we strolled around the middle.

Chuck on wide players & go for it at tempo, fire the ball into the box & if neccessary, play Aguero, Balotelli, Dzeko & Tevez at the same time for the second half & tell all of them to cross, shoot & keep doing it over & over & over until it goes in.


I think it was the BB game I was meaning above. Closing down very high up and passing with speed.

Conclusion: We can do it... when the tactics are right?, when the oppo are compliant?, when the players are awake? When they feel like it? When everyone is on form? When they relax, take 'risks' and don't try too hard?

Ultimately what we dont like to take into consideration as fans, cos we tend to be one season orientated at best, is that the getting it right is a process of development and learning... is there a rule book for that? is there a set time frame?

The answer is no. This set of players with this manager will come good, very good, for 95 to 100% of games.


I think all the development stuff is now for the summer. It's balls out 'we're better than you' football which is required.

A tactical game is probably required v rags & Arsenal to some extent but for the rest of them, we have the players to just steamroller them. Just go for it, chuck everything at them trying to score goals as if our lives depended on it. Which is the point of the thread I suppose; a frenzy of attacking football. There's no time to be nervous or ponderous if you're going full tilt, balls out for the win, the adrenaline is pumping already.

If we chuck in the kitchen sink, we will win all those other games imo & the title will come down to the Arsenal & Utd games (provided rags handle the pressure of us winning without them slipping up, which I'm not convinced they will if we press them).

We can crush all of these fuckers, but not unless we really get stuck in; we can't cruise through it any longer.


we all realize this...does Roberto Mancini feel the same way?

cheers
viVa el ciTy!

"All things considered, there's absolutely no escape from this hellish situation. I'm prepared to take the coward's way out if you are. It's reincarnation or nothing." -- Gideon Stargrave

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Re: Lets Panic

Postby Mike J » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:29 pm

that second half shows that this thread makes sense. we threw everything at them and fucking battered them. did they even have a shot?

FFS bob start doing this more often, the cautious approach does not work in the prem,
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