Joe Hart

[Hazy2]

He needs to start catching the ball, surely if you are punching with double fists than you can open your hands and catch it?? Panti started a bit slow last week but was super in the air and caught everything and that was against a big physical Stoke team. Joe needs some serious competition at club and international level so that the high levels he has set himself continue. Been well below par this season but he is not alone..

Agreed, His pre game warm up at QPR had a large section of Punching the ball, Now Liverpool are hardly a Wimbledon. The coach is Italian so maybe he is putting his DNA on Joe. Whatever it is he has to deal with the 1 ball and catching it has to be his 1st thought.
He must realise the whole team are in the box so it is coming back in.

[LookMumImOnMCF.net]

Good keeper.

[Sister of fu]

He needs to start catching the ball, surely if you are punching with double fists than you can open your hands and catch it?? Panti started a bit slow last week but was super in the air and caught everything and that was against a big physical Stoke team. Joe needs some serious competition at club and international level so that the high levels he has set himself continue. Been well below par this season but he is not alone..

Agreed, His pre game warm up at QPR had a large section of Punching the ball, Now Liverpool are hardly a Wimbledon. The coach is Italian so maybe he is putting his DNA on Joe. Whatever it is he has to deal with the 1 ball and catching it has to be his 1st thought.
He must realise the whole team are in the box so it is coming back in.

From memory British keepers always used to try and catch crosses and it was more the continental keepers that seemed to opt for punching the ball, its now spread to a point where everyone is doing it. Has anyone actually had a go at punching a moving ball through a crowd of people. Its not an easy skill to do and you must get it right or you ended up looking like a pillock (see De Gayer at spurs).

[john68]

Goalkeeping question for Sis...

Years ago, keepers always seemed to try and catch the ball and punching seemed to be used only as a last resort when a keeper was stretching or couldn't get cleanly to the ball. Not sure I am right with this Sis, but it is how it seemed to be then.

Now punching the ball seems to be almost the 1st choice for many keepers. I noticed David James's technique was often to parry the ball down and collect it as it bounced back up, even for some quite simple shots.

In past times, keepers' gloves were quite thin and more accurately reflected the hand and finger movements. Maybe giving a keeper more control. Now they are massive. Does the size of the gloves and the mass of padding affect how the glove responds to hand/finger movements? What gains do the new style gloves give a keeper?

Thanks.

[Im_Spartacus]

Goalkeeping question for Sis...

Years ago, keepers always seemed to try and catch the ball and punching seemed to be used only as a last resort when a keeper was stretching or couldn't get cleanly to the ball. Not sure I am right with this Sis, but it is how it seemed to be then.

Now punching the ball seems to be almost the 1st choice for many keepers. I noticed David James's technique was often to parry the ball down and collect it as it bounced back up, even for some quite simple shots.

In past times, keepers' gloves were quite thin and more accurately reflected the hand and finger movements. Maybe giving a keeper more control. Now they are massive. Does the size of the gloves and the mass of padding affect how the glove responds to hand/finger movements? What gains do the new style gloves give a keeper?

Thanks.

Garth Crooks question there haha

I've used high end keeper gloves after accidentally being sent them by a sports firm in an order mixup. These particular £100 pair were not actually conducive to punching because of the support in the fingers which prevent a proper fist being made easily.

The palm of the glove was so refined that it deadened the impact of the ball so reducing the likelihood of the ball bouncing out after a one handed save, but the same properties reduce the impact when coming to catch meaning it is, in theory much easier to catch with the new technology

It all points towards it being a tactical issue, and I wonder if statistically there is evidence showing that in percentage terms, its safer to punch than to come to catch and drop the ball at your feet

Interesting what s o f makes of this and what is driving it - because I can't accept its the glove which is more advanced than ever

[john68]

Thanks for your insight Sparty. It was a genuine (Garth Crooks) question...:-) based on observation rather than experience mate...Ta.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

I didn't think he was shit. Made a cracking save to deny sturridge. Made a few clearance punches under pressure. Let two screamers by him. He hasn't been as good this season but he is getting a lot of shit considering yesterday was the first goal he conceded in 2013.

I agree he wasn't shit but there is no doubt he has not been at his best consistently this season.I don't think I would drop him but would have be having serious talks with him.

Yesterday was weird.He went for that early high ball which Sturridge took down well and got behind him.That was scarily bad judgement and we got away with it cos of Zaba.I thought he was ok to go for it but he HAS TO get the ball .He just looked slow and sloppy. Not sure about the first goal.It was low to his left again.Is that a genuine weakness or was it just a superbly struck shot.

Same with the 2nd goal.The opinion seems to be it was unstoppable but he seemed to go very late for me.Then the save at the end was superb.But there was also the Zaba back pass in the middle.I have to think that was Zaba's fault as I can be sure that Joe had shouted very very loud as he always does.

Does he work on distribution in training, Doug?

I have seen him do it yes but very rarely and bearing in mind how poor he is at it I would have him working on it every single day

[Hazy2]

He needs to start catching the ball, surely if you are punching with double fists than you can open your hands and catch it?? Panti started a bit slow last week but was super in the air and caught everything and that was against a big physical Stoke team. Joe needs some serious competition at club and international level so that the high levels he has set himself continue. Been well below par this season but he is not alone..

Agreed, His pre game warm up at QPR had a large section of Punching the ball, Now Liverpool are hardly a Wimbledon. The coach is Italian so maybe he is putting his DNA on Joe. Whatever it is he has to deal with the 1 ball and catching it has to be his 1st thought.
He must realise the whole team are in the box so it is coming back in.

From memory British keepers always used to try and catch crosses and it was more the continental keepers that seemed to opt for punching the ball, its now spread to a point where everyone is doing it. Has anyone actually had a go at punching a moving ball through a crowd of people. Its not an easy skill to do and you must get it right or you ended up looking like a pillock (see De Gayer at spurs).

For me he is complicating his game. the late challenge has been replaced with a nudge or forwading standing in his way,he should come and take the lot, going back to QPR Ceasar, is the best at the two fisted punch clearance, he is a natural at it. Joe looked dodgy all game for me the punch also had the crowd thinking WTF are you doing., back to basics could be the shout.

[Sister of fu]

Goalkeeping question for Sis...

Years ago, keepers always seemed to try and catch the ball and punching seemed to be used only as a last resort when a keeper was stretching or couldn't get cleanly to the ball. Not sure I am right with this Sis, but it is how it seemed to be then.

Now punching the ball seems to be almost the 1st choice for many keepers. I noticed David James's technique was often to parry the ball down and collect it as it bounced back up, even for some quite simple shots.

In past times, keepers' gloves were quite thin and more accurately reflected the hand and finger movements. Maybe giving a keeper more control. Now they are massive. Does the size of the gloves and the mass of padding affect how the glove responds to hand/finger movements? What gains do the new style gloves give a keeper?

Thanks.

I don’t think gloves hinder a keeper in fact I think they are a massive help. I love thick roll finger gloves and will only buy this type. They are thick and padded but you get a good feel off the ball with them. When damp they kind of have a sticky feel to them and you feel that the ball sticks to the gloves.

There are so many different brands of gloves that do so many different things. Adidas were the first to bring out the Fingertip ones that had bones in them; the bones were there to help with punching as that became more prevalent in the game. I never liked this type of glove as they were stiff and made movement restrictive but other keepers like them as they were supported and prevented broken fingers. Iv had gloves that have had punching area’s on them (like below) where there is a layer of plastic across the knuckles. Again was not a fan of these so reverted back to my roll finger gloves.



I love to wear nice clean pair gloves and have always worn them since becoming a keeper but when you look back over the history of football I think you will find all the keepers that are referred to as the "greatest" are from yester year who either player bare handed or with a pair of gardening gloves. I think gloves may just by physiological/gimmick thing brought in over time. Saying that I wouldnt play without mine and I have to ensure that I have the right ones on. I have match day gloves and training gloves. Where as some girls like Jimmy Choo shoes and have mass collections I love Sells and HO Gk keeper gloves and have stupid amounts of then all over the house.

[sweenyuk]

I didn't think he was shit. Made a cracking save to deny sturridge. Made a few clearance punches under pressure. Let two screamers by him. He hasn't been as good this season but he is getting a lot of shit considering yesterday was the first goal he conceded in 2013.

I agree he wasn't shit but there is no doubt he has not been at his best consistently this season.I don't think I would drop him but would have be having serious talks with him.

Yesterday was weird.He went for that early high ball which Sturridge took down well and got behind him.That was scarily bad judgement and we got away with it cos of Zaba.I thought he was ok to go for it but he HAS TO get the ball .He just looked slow and sloppy. Not sure about the first goal.It was low to his left again.Is that a genuine weakness or was it just a superbly struck shot.

Same with the 2nd goal.The opinion seems to be it was unstoppable but he seemed to go very late for me.Then the save at the end was superb.But there was also the Zaba back pass in the middle.I have to think that was Zaba's fault as I can be sure that Joe had shouted very very loud as he always does.

Does he work on distribution in training, Doug?

I have seen him do it yes but very rarely and bearing in mind how poor he is at it I would have him working on it every single day

He was working on distribution before the game yesterday, someone was back passing to him and he was then kicking out to half way line to the goalie coach and hitting him everytime, yet in the game never got near our players, guess it easier though with no opposition

[Mikhail Chigorin]

He needs to start catching the ball, surely if you are punching with double fists than you can open your hands and catch it?? Panti started a bit slow last week but was super in the air and caught everything and that was against a big physical Stoke team. Joe needs some serious competition at club and international level so that the high levels he has set himself continue. Been well below par this season but he is not alone..

Hi Sis,

As a 'keeper, in most cases would you have been disappointed if you'd been beaten by two longer range shots from outside the box ??

Even though the two in question were particularly well struck, albeit low down, do you think they were unstoppable if Joe had enough time to see them, or do you think he might have been unsighted ??

Bad goalkeeping, or just unlucky ??

[Sister of fu]

He needs to start catching the ball, surely if you are punching with double fists than you can open your hands and catch it?? Panti started a bit slow last week but was super in the air and caught everything and that was against a big physical Stoke team. Joe needs some serious competition at club and international level so that the high levels he has set himself continue. Been well below par this season but he is not alone..

Hi Sis,

As a 'keeper, in most cases would you have been disappointed if you'd been beaten by two longer range shots from outside the box ??

Even though the two in question were particularly well struck, albeit low down, do you think they were unstoppable if Joe had enough time to see them, or do you think he might have been unsighted ??

Bad goalkeeping, or just unlucky ??

I conceded a similar one yesterday at my front post and normally I wouldn't get beat at that angle but the ball kicked off the surface and picked up speed. I think the first one took him a bit by surprise. Look a Sturridge when he takes the shot, zero back lift, he just hit it and it was through a ruck of players, plus the surface was greasey yesterday that doesn't help. No one has mentioned the part Garcia played in that goal, foot should have gone through the ball. I also don't think Edin covered himself in glory rolling around pretending to be hurt when he was sulking about being fouled.

The 2nd goal was worldy, no one is saving that. It was past him before he even moved. Sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and say great strike. I think we can all agree that the worst bit of goalkeeping yesterday came from Reina, god knows what went through his head. I just have no idea what got in his head.

[bobby brows]

Wearing gloves is definitely psychological. i've dived on indoor concrete pitches just cos i was wearing gloves and failed to get behind a trickling shot cos i wasn't. from experience i think wearing gloves makes you WANT to catch the ball more.

I think Sis has got it spot on about Joe on yesterdays goals. I'm not too concerned as in the grand scheme of things he's still classed as a young goalkeeper and its just that we've come to expect a lot of him very quickly.

I still remember him making his debut against Sheffield United and him dropping the ball on the line from a shot or a cross and thinking he was too slight to make it.

What really worries me about Joe though is that he is making mistakes that he wasn't making last year or even in the early days against Sven.

[dazby]

I wore gloves with a kevlar support that meant that it was impossible for my fingers to get bent backwards, a recurring problem for me before wearing them. Although it meant that I could never fully straighten my fingers, it wasn't an issue because they were always in correct catching position. The kevlar also meant I could get more distance on my punches.

Joe is having some concentration issues in some games this season, which is affecting his decision making. The dippers game was one of his worst.

[Cocacolajojo1]

He needs to start catching the ball, surely if you are punching with double fists than you can open your hands and catch it?? Panti started a bit slow last week but was super in the air and caught everything and that was against a big physical Stoke team. Joe needs some serious competition at club and international level so that the high levels he has set himself continue. Been well below par this season but he is not alone..

Hi Sis,

As a 'keeper, in most cases would you have been disappointed if you'd been beaten by two longer range shots from outside the box ??

Even though the two in question were particularly well struck, albeit low down, do you think they were unstoppable if Joe had enough time to see them, or do you think he might have been unsighted ??

Bad goalkeeping, or just unlucky ??

I conceded a similar one yesterday at my front post and normally I wouldn't get beat at that angle but the ball kicked off the surface and picked up speed. I think the first one took him a bit by surprise. Look a Sturridge when he takes the shot, zero back lift, he just hit it and it was through a ruck of players, plus the surface was greasey yesterday that doesn't help. No one has mentioned the part Garcia played in that goal, foot should have gone through the ball. I also don't think Edin covered himself in glory rolling around pretending to be hurt when he was sulking about being fouled.

The 2nd goal was worldy, no one is saving that. It was past him before he even moved. Sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and say great strike. I think we can all agree that the worst bit of goalkeeping yesterday came from Reina, god knows what went through his head. I just have no idea what got in his head.

Thanks for this answer. I feel a bit more at ease after reading it.

[john68]

Thanks Sis, Appreciate your time and effort...as well as the others who pitched in. I am now a bit wiser on this.

[Hazy2]

The Training Valdes ,did under Guardiolas coaching was as real as possible shots through packed 6 yard box short over arm catch and throw movement all game related, his passing was sharpened up in the 6 v 5's, I have been to an open session at Barca and the keepers warm up is nothing Like I see at City, the shots and long clearance are full on, Barca, do it as if it is a game. I SAW A SAVE THE OTHER NIGHT AT VALENCIA, DOUBLE SAVE AS THEY DID IT IN THE SESSION, The reaction from Valdes and Puyol was class and IMHO a reflection of the best showing it is on the training ground you do the work. Hart is young and learning, Valdes is a winner of everything in the game and getting better. Gerry Armstrong raves about his agility and most of all his passing from the back is world class. I had him down as iffy, he has ironed out any weaknesses and looks amazing in a team he has little to do, when required he is ready.